V 76 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE Mr. Patrick Flood. 8859. He is one of those persons, then, in whose case you did not take into account the circumstance that he labours himself?- I never saw him labour 11 May 1838. more than I have said. . , . , . . . 8860 Did you take the circumstance into account of his labouring, when you were estimating his beneficial interest?— No; but I took into account in the case of that man that he employs labour. 8S61 Is there any other of the persons you have mentioned to- day that does labour upon his land ?— Yes; M'Gurk labours, and so does Reynolds. 8862. Did you take that circumstance into account when you were estimating their beneficial interest ?— I did, certainly. 8863. Mr. O'Connell.'] Do you mean by that that he has more produce for his labour than he would have from a hired labourer?— Certainly; he can do it cheaper for himself. . 8864. And do more work, probably ?— Yes ; and his family labour with him. 8865. Mr. Curry.] In all the calculations you have made of beneficial in- terest, you have deducted a sum equal to the expense of cultivating the farm before you ascertain a beneficial interest ?— Decidedly. 8866. Mr. Lefroy.] What quantity of stock has this man that labours in look ing after them and bringing them to market ?— Clancy has another large fatting farm ; I do not know the extent of it; he holds 20 acres where he is. 8867. You say he has 13 acres under grass in his farm ?— He has two hold ings. 8868. With respect to the Greville estate in general, is it not notorious that there is a monstrous large arrear due upon the estate ?— I believe quite the reverse at present. It was so in 1833 ; but in consequence of the tenants voting as they did, the agent made them pay up their rents. 886q. At what time was Major Thompson examined before the Committee ? — In 1833 ; he was out of the agency at that time. 8870. Was Mr. Kift also examined, the acting agent, then ?— I think he was. 8871. Was not the fact of enormous arrears being due upon the estate proved by those gentlemen before the Committee?— Certainly; but Mr. Thompson proved tiiat it was the general practice upon the estate for men to owe two years, and then pay one. 8872. It was only from the neglect of the agent to get it in ?— I have known men that could pay 500/. rent, owe two years' rent upon the same estate. Mr. Thompson allowed it to remain over ; he never asked them to pay. 8873. Mr. O'Connell.] What became of that after 1833?— It was paid up. 8874. Mr. Lefroy.] Did not Major Thompson and Mr. Kift both distinctly prove the necessity of making abatements to those very tenants ?— I did not see that. 8875. Did you see the evidence?— 1 read part of it. 8876. Did you read that part of it ?— 1 have the book here; and I do not think there is any such thing proved as to any one freeholder that is here. 8877. With respect to the estate generally ?— I believe that the tenants have paid up two years' rent upon the average since. 8878. Did not Major Thompson upon that occasion prove before the Com- mittee that those very men who owed large arrears applied to him for abatements, and that they got abatements; and thai those men registered afterwards as having a beneficial interest of 10/. upon their old rents? Those are new takes altogether. He may be referring generally to the estate, which is a very large one; but I confine myself to those that I valued. [ The last question was repeated.]— I have not read any such thing. 8879. Mr. O'Connell.] What are the mistakes you speak of ?— Leases got at a greater rent at that period. 8880. Who got those leases?— Reynolds is one whom I am speaking of, and Fitzsimons, and Lee, and Wallace. 8881. Mr. Lefroy.] Upon abatements ?— No, I never heard that they got anv abatements ; I do not believe the tenants ever got abatements. Mr Tuite who was examined upon this very land, told me himself that he fould not eo upon those lands, as he knew them ; that there were no better lands in the countv and lie refused it. That was Mr. Tuite, who valued the parish under the lithe Composition Act. 1 8881*. Chairman.] »