SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. 103 / , y / 8840. Mr. Lefroy.} He only received what was usual?- I do not know how Mr PatrickFlood much he received. ' 8841. Do you mean to say that he received any sum that induced him to let u May 1838. the rents at an under value, with respect to the duty he owed to his employer? — I do not say that he did any such thing; lands were very low at the period that he made those leases. 8842. Chairman.] Do you mean to state that he let this land at a lower rate, in consequence of this live or seven guineas that they paid to him ?— I do not, but lands were low at that time. 8843. Do you mean to say that he was influenced by any sums of money that were either given or offered in the letting of those lands ?— I do not. 8844. Do you mean to say that he let them improperly low ?— No, I think he did not; I think he gave the tenant a very good interest in it, but he did not give the same interest in the lands that he let in 1829 and 1830. He did not let them within 50 per cent, of the sum in 1829 and 1830 for which he let them in 1827 and 1828 ; townlands of the same quality, under the tithe composition, classed in the same class, are paying 3/. 5 s. and 3/. 10 s. an acre. 8845. Mr. Lefroy.'] Do you mean to say that if he let 10 A. 3 R.~ 15 P. of land at such a rate as to give the tenant between 30/. and 40/. a year bene- ficial interest, that he did justice to his employer?— I think he did ; why not? The man's labour and capital give him a beneficial interest; it is not the land- lord; 1 have tenants myself of land, let within the last two years, and I should say they have 30 /. or 40 /. interest in the land. I know the value of land, what I could make of land myself. 8846. Do you think that Mr. Thompson knew that this man had a beneficial interest under the lease he made to him of 30/. or - JO /. ?— I think that Mr. Thompson would have had a very bad market for his rent if it had not been so. I do not see how the tenant could pay the rent if he had not a beneficial interest to that amount. 8847. Do you think that all the leases made by Mr. Thompson upon that estate gave to the tenant a beneficial interest in that proportion?— Some would have more, and some less, according to the size of the farm ; the larger the farm is, the man would have to buy more stock ; this is a small farm; the man is able with his own labour and a few cows to manage the land. 8848. Do you mean to say, that a man has a greater prospect of beneficial interest upon a small farm than a large one ?— A man that labours upon his own farm will do much more for the size than upon a larger farm. 8849. Were the rents well paid while Mr. Thompson was the agent ?— They have been very well paid since 1832 and 1833 ; Mr. Thompson allowed two years' rent to lay over, and then, when two years' rent were due, he called for one half year. 8850. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] Is the evidence you have given about the bene- ficial interest which those parties had, influenced by their being a class of men who labour themselves upon their land, and therefore have not to pay for labour? — I say, that if they are not able to labour themselves, I charge the land with the labour that another man would be employed to do. 8851. When you spoke of a particular farm, a small farm yielding a greater profit in proportion to its extent than a large farm, you said that was the case because the man laboured himself?— Yes, in a great measure. 8852. Is that a circumstance that you have taken into account in giving evidence with regard to these several persons?— Certainly; I took into account that, where the man and his family labour on the farm, he is able to make more of it than a man that has to go into the market for labour. 8853. Are those men persons who labour themselves?— Clancy is a man that labours very little. 8854. Does he labour himself ?— He may occasionally labour in seme part of the season, but very little. 8855. Do you know the man ?— I do. 8856. You know then whether he does labour or not ?— I think he labours very little. 8857. Does he labour at ail upon his land ?— He looks after his stock. 8858. When you valued his farm, did you take into consideration that he was a man that laboured himself?— No; I consider that he is doing very good labour when he is looking after his stock and bringing them into the market. 643. o 4 8859. He