SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. , ^ j / J / j 2 March 1838. 4526. But supposing the man that read it to him was either dead or out of „ „ „ the way, how would it be possible to identify the man ?- I suppose the barrister would be questioned as to the faet of having seen the man affLx hi'mark tWhnA yT fPPfe thaVthe registering barrister could identify every man Lit ST n0t; he WOuld identify the document 452S. How could that identify the manr- It would be presumptive evidence that the man was there, having the barrister s signature and my Signature and the barrister would say that the man appeared before him 4529. How would that show that Paddy Murphy, rather than John Ahern was the man that appeared before the barrister ?— I must leave it to the lawyers to draw their own conclusion; for my own part I would think it sufficient to satisfy me. i 4530. Would it not be impossible to identify the man r— There are many things that we do not see, but from circumstances we are convinced, almost to a certainty, that it is so; and I think this is one of those cases. 4531. How would it, in the case supposed, be possible to prove that the man who swore falsely was Paddy Murphy rather than John Ahern r— As to false swearing, there was such a host of persons, counsel and agents and witnesses, at the registry, that they would be quite competent to examine into it at the time, and they would be better able to do it then than afterwards. 4532. Supposing they found out afterwards that the man had not a qualifi- cation, and he had signed only as a marksman, how would it be possible to bring home to the man that he was the person, supposing that you were either out of the way or dead ?— I am not aware of the legal point. 4533. Can you give the name of any one person whom you brought up, and to whom you read the affidavit and signed for him, he being able to read and write ?— If I saw any of the affidavits, I might. 4534. But you cannot, at this moment, tell the name of any one man ?— No, I cannot; I was there for days and weeks, and there were such a variety of persons there every day, that at this distance of eight years I could not name one single man; but it might refresh my memory if I were to see my own writing in the documents. 4535. Are you able to state how many persons were in that predicament, men whom you knew to be capable of reading and writing, for whom you wrote their names, and got them to sign as marksmen ?— A great number; because, when I was writing the affidavits for the men, I found some of the men repeating the words over my shoulder as I was reading, and I turned to them and asked them whether they could not write, and they said " very badly ;" and frequently a man said, " My hand is stiff with work, sir; you will do it better, and I would rather hear you read it." 4536. Can you give the Committee any idea of the number of persons that were able to read and write and yet signed as marksmen ?— There were a great many who did it besides me ; there were a great many gentlemen that followed my plan for the sake of despatch. 4537. Who were they?— A great number; we had agents and sub- agents; you will see their names upon the affidavits. . 4^ 38 But that will not show which of the persons were illiterate, and which of them could read and write ?— No, but I ascertained that they followed my CXSoe' Who were they that did so ?— I still must refer to the documents, at a distance of eight years. , 4540. You cannot now name any person except yourself that wrote the names of persons as illiterate and yet were able to write ?- I say positively, that there were others who did it, because I know the fact. 4541. Was there any arrangement between you that that should Woner- No ; but when they saw" the despatch that I gave my men, and compared it with the time the men themselves took, many of them adopted my plan- LUC ill^ li . j — j - Chairman! Many of Whom?- Many of the nrts- three registering barristers sat 111 the year 1832, and 111 mat case, of course, I could no? work quick enough ^ reaHy* by°^ the various oaths upon my plan, and they ^^^^ SfSmi in many of them wrote very tediously, and others ot tnem a very straggling and wide way, and would finish it m another line, 0.46. ^ D D