SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. // 11 There arere ^ & ^^ ° f the ^^ ° f the dty ° f C° rk that are freeman?- ^ q' ^/ rre c/ erC many of a very Poor class amongst them ?—' There are 1 Mr- Serjeant Jackson.] Are there many very poor persons amone- the country voters that come in from the liberties r- Yes, and amongst the citv ones too. 6 189. Are there not some that are even illiterate that come in from the liber- - Yes; I know that many attached marks to their names, and some were Mr. J. C. Bernard. ties ?- many miles of the city of Cork?— The some of it is as much a country district as the most 7 February .838. unable to speak English ; they were obliged to have an interpreter. 190. Mr. O'Connell.] Within how many miles of the citv nf extreme limit is seven miles distant part of the county. 191. Is it not principally in the line towards Kinsale that there are a o00d many Irish ?— I do not know in what part. 192. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] Can you state in round numbers what number of those country constituents are marksmen ?— I ascertained it; but there is a return before the Committee from the clerk of the peace, in round numbers: I believe between 600 and 700 who have signed with a mark. 193. Is that the case with those freemen who have been described as beino- poor ?— I do not think there are any freemen amongst them; I will not under- take to say whether there are or not, but I am sure a very limited number, if any. 194. But you do know from 600 to 700 of the other class?— I saw documents of that number. 195. You saw the documents subscribed with a mark instead of the name? — Yes. 196. Mr. Beamish.] As to the freemen you do not know?— I am sure that tliey almost all sign their name. 197. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] You have stated, that 011 coming to vote the party produces a certificate, and he may be called upon to swear that he has paid all his rates and municipal taxes?— If he is a householder he swears that nothing is due by him. 198. He takes an oath when he comes to poll similar to the oath which he takes upon the registry ?— Yes, to the same effect. 199. Are not the two oaths substantially the same, as to the important words " due or payable by me" ?— Yes. 200. Then the oath which they take, if required, at the time of polling, is sus- ceptible of the same evasion or frustration that the oath at the registration is ?— If you call it an evasion. 201. Is not the effect of it to let in persons to vote who may not have paid, or are unable to pay, the amount of the taxes ?— The effect of it is, that per- sons take the oath whose taxes have been presented and raised off the rest of the community by reason of their having been excused upon the ground of inability. 202. Upon the ground of either real inability or inability which they have re- presented ?— The principle adopted by the grand jury is, that they were unable. 203. Are you aware what means the grand jury take when a memorial comes in for exemption to ascertain whether it is well founded. In the first place, suppose there is an appeal by a party who says I am improperly rated ?— The grand jury call for evidence ; they hear the parties themselves. 204. Do they hear witnesses ?— They do. 205. Do they employ any officers of the grand jury to go and examine?— I do not believe they do ; the grand jury exercise their own judgment upon it, 206. Suppose after the assizes there is an appeal, what is the course then taken ? Then the returns are made upon oath by the churchwardens and the parish constables. . _ c , 207. That is the document upon which the grand jury act when a turtlier presentment is made to make good the deficiency ?— Yes. _ 008 Does that occur to any considerable extent m the city oi Cork .— At every assizes there are some hundreds of pounds. In the last assizes there were between 300 and 400. I do not mean to say that all that were excused are registered voters. Some are females; and there may be some of them that are excused on the ground of the premises not being occupied. 200. Did you! upon any occasion, compare a list of persons registered as occu- piers of 10/. value and upwards with a return made by the valuators of the persons liable to rates ?- No, I cannot say that 1 did. The way I ascertained 0.46. c 2