12 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Mr with that of the number of prisoners confined, and what is the cost in each for John McMullen. me( jical expenses?— I have already stated to the Committee, that the medical ' expenses of the gaols in Dublin were last year above 1,500 I. ( 2 May.) Upon comparison with the number that are at present in the prisons of Dublin, and that get medicinal aid at that expense, what proportion do they bear to the number supported in the gaol of Newgate, in London; what are the number of pri- soners in Dublin ?— I believe the persons committed for trial and the convicted criminals under rule of transportation and of imprisonment may at present be from 650 to 700. Are you sure now that you are right in saying that the trouble of the surgeon is confined in London strictly to the prison of Newgate; does he get that 500 /. for the prison of Newgate, or are his labours extended farther than that?— I have been informed that such is the fact; I believe that the medical officer who attends the gaol of Newgate and who acts both as physician and surgeon, receives 500I. a year, out of which he has to pay an assistant, and to provide all medicines and necessaries for the prisoners. Is he obliged to find nurses and those expenses ?— I understood that he was to find medicines; I am not as yet informed as to the payment of nurses. Are you aware that in the medical expense of 1,500/. which you say the prisons of Dublin cost, that there is there included the salary of the surgeon ?— It is part of the 1,500 I. How much is the salary of the surgeon?— Two hundred guineas. Then is the remainder all for medicines ?— The physician to the gaols receives out of it a salary of 4001, a year. Have you been employed since you came to this town in examining the expense of the London prisons ?— I have devoted some time to that purpose. Have you made any comparisons between the support and expenses of the Dublin prisons and those of London ?— In the case of the medical expense, and the expense of clothing; and I find further in my inquiries, that the expense of clothing transports is defrayed entirely at the charge of government, and that no delay occurs in removing them ; in the city of Dublin, it has been hitherto assessed by the grand jury and paid by the householders. Have you made any other comparisons between the relative expenses of the London and Dublin prisons, considering number and diversity of circumstances, & c. ?— I have not hitherto fully done so; but I intend to do it previous to my next examination before the Committee. But you are sure there is both a physician and a surgeon in the Dublin prisons ?— There is; the apothecary also has a salary of 20/. a year, exclusive of his bill for medicines. Are not the gentlemen who compose the grand jury of Dublin generally people in trade, merchants, & c.?— They are uniformly composed of the aldermen and sheritf's- peers of the city, the principal part of whom are not engaged in trade; many of them are persons who have retired from it; at present there are but a few of them who are actively engaged in trading or commercial pursuits ; a considerable proportion of them are always police magistrates. Do you think that the proceedings of the grand jury would be benefited, if men of the first property were put upon that grand jury ; do you think it would improve their proceedings?— I think it would decidedly have that effect. Are you aware that the election to grand juries is bounded entirely by the corpo- ration?— It has been exclusively so, for many years back. Did you hear of any instance in which that usage was departed from ?— I am not aware of any such instance. Recollect yourself?— The fact may be, that some individual unconnected with the corporation has been on a grand jury; but I am not aware of the circum- stance. You have stated that advertisements are published for proposals for contracts for the gaols ?— Yes. Are the contracts subsequently advertised as given ?—' They are not. Nor the individuals who get those contracts?— No. Would it be any check or benefit to the public, if the particulars of the contracts, and the names of the contractors, were given to the public subsequently to their getting the contract?-— I think it would afford decided advantage. You