12 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Mr. Estimating the proportion of expense incurred on account of John McMullen.^ the bridewell, at two- fifths of this sum, the amount refer- able to that prison will be £. 1,034 o 2 Expenses incurred, exclusively for the use of the bridewell, as previously stated - - - - - - - 4,457 411 Total for the half year - - ^. 5,491 5 1 (. 1 May.) Do those expenses include alterations of prisons, and every thing?—- Every thing. Taking the facts as you have stated them, what would you compute the annual - expense of food alone for the prisoners to be, in Newgate and at the bridewell?— At about 4,000/. a year. Are you aware, what is the amount presented for those purposes ?— I am not aware of the amount presented, for the purpose of food, it is always mixed up with the other presentments ; the average amount of all the grand jury presentments for the last three years, is about 25,500/. Can you account for that large increase of expenditure, by any mere reference to the expense of maintaining the prisoners?— I certainly cannot. To what other causes would you attribute that large increase of expenditure ?— I have already stated that, exclusive of the increase of the expense owing to the extension of the recorder's jurisdiction, and the large sums annually applied to the support of convicted criminals, I did believe there was great want of economy in the disbursement of the money, levied under the authority of the grand jury: I can- not attribute a large proportion of the increase in question to any other cause than to this want of economy. Are you able to inform the Committee, in what departments you conceive such want of economy to exist?— I have already referred to the medical department, in which I think it is more evident than in any other. By the medical department, are the Committee to understand the expenses of salaries to the physician and surgeon, and the payments to the apothecary ?— Certainly, all charges incurred by attendance, and provisions for sick criminals. Are there any other instances of want of economy, to which you would direct the attention of the Committee?— The salaries of various officers appear to be un- necessarily large ; that of the inspector, I have already stated, has been recently in- creased from 300 /. to 400 /. a circumstance which has certainly excited considerable attention. I11 what year was the increase of that officer's salary made?— In Michaelmas term 1822. During the early part of that period, were the expenses of living in the city of Dublin, higher or lower, than they are at present?— They were unquestionably higher ; and as far as I can judge, I should be induced to conclude, that 300 /. at present, would be fully equal in the maintenance of a family, to 400 /. during a long period prior to 1816 or 1817. Therefore, in point of fact, you conceive that the inspector of prisons, receives a salary in effect, exceeding in value by 200/. a year, what he received at the early part of that time ?— That is the conclusion at which I arrive. That in obtaining a command over the comforts and necessaries of life 300/. a year, would go further than 400/. did at the former part of that time? — That is my opinion. Can you state any facts respecting the office of inspector?— He is appointed by the grand jury, and his province is to see that all contracts are faithfully and cor- rectly executed ; it will, I think, appear to the Committee as wholly nugatory, that an officer who is appointed by the grand jury, and whose salary is regulated at their pleasure, should control the receipt of supplies for the furnishing of which persons who constantly serve as grand jurors, as well as the friends and dependents of the existing grand jury, are almost uniformly the contractors. Large sums are also constantly presented to this officer for the purchase of clothing and necessaries for convicts, and for the necessary expenses of the gaol of Newgate; to pay the salaries of under gaolers and turnkeys, duties which it will appear this officer ought to control not to perform ; and with respect to which, it is perfectly clear that the agent of the grand jury, and the inspector of the prisons is under the existing prac- tice, in such cases, one and the same person. Can you give any information to the Committee, with regard to the supply of stationery for the use of the grand jury?— The amount in the last year was no less than 344/. 8s. 9d. for the use of the grand juries and the sessions- house. Supplied