ON THE LOCAL TAXATION OF THE CITY OF DUBLIN. 247 In the event of your having a refractory sheriff, how would YOU be able to recon- cile the system established with the responsibility of the sheriff in cases of debt?— If the sheriff refused to act upon our principles, he would then appoint his own gaoler; but he would in that case have to pay him, which in itself, gives the public some security ; that the course which has been adverted to, will not be pursued by any sheriff, as it is one of additional burden to him, without any advantage resulting from his declining to act under our suggestion. Who has the present appointment of the turnkeys and subaltern officers of the gaol?— The turnkeys and subordinate officers are appointed by the governor of the prison, subject to the approbation of the board of superintendence ; but every officer's salary, from the highest to the lowest, is made contingent upon his performance of his duties, and there is a power by his appointment vested in the board of super- intendence, if they shall so think fit, in cases of delinquency, to strike off any portion of the salary. Who are the wardsmen appointed by ?— They are selected in like manner from amongst the prisoners themselves, and they are entitled to rather better allowances, and somewhat of pecuniary encouragement; the appointment of wardsmen from amongst the prisoners themselves, we have found conducive to the best conse- quences, as it affords us an opportunity of encouraging and rewarding those, who by their good conduct, appear deserving of support and countenance. In point of fact, does the governor give security to the county or to the sheriff, for the security of all the prisoners committed to his care ?— To both. Have there been any escapes from the new gaol — There have been escapes; when the prison was first occupied, the architecture was not complete, and there were ladders and modes of passing up the walls from the unfinished state of the buildings, which enabled some criminals to escape ; there have been some subse- quent escapes even after the architectural arrrangements were complete, which we had reason to attribute to the corruption of one of the turnkeys, who was imme- diately dismissed. Have you any means to ascertain the profits arising from the labour of the crimi- nals in that gaol ?— No, I have not; but those profits are in themseves limited. The internal work of the prison, whitewashing, cooking, washing, every occupation of that nature, is performed by the prisoners; and those who are not convicted are entitled to a greater proportion of their earnings, and I have known an individual receiving between one and two pounds upon his discharge, which, in my mind, was highly important to Ihe public interest, as it precluded the necessity of his being cast back upon his evil courses, upon his discharge from prison. To what purposes have the profits of that labour, whatever they may be, been applied ?— Whatever profits have taken place upon the labour, are of course carried to the credit of the county. In estimating the expense of the prisoners per day, did you mean that was the expense of the county after crediting the county with the produce of their labour, or that it was the gross amount of the expenses attending their food ?— It was the gross amount of the expenses attending their food. Of course, then, that is to be diminished by the amount of the produce of their labour ?— Yes; but as yet, the profits of labour have been extremely small, for we have not as yet been able to establish our wheat and flax mill, from whence we anticipate a considerable benefit in the consequent considerable reduction of the county charge ; at present, the mills which we employ, are merely for raising water for the purposes of the prison itself, a matter of importance, both as it relates to the interior cleanliness and the employment of the prisoners, but one which, in itself, produces no profit. Does it appear to you to be a plan likely to be productive of profit, the extensive introduction of manufactures?— I do not think the introduction of manufactures, in a county circumstanced like ours, could be attended with any considerable ad- vantage ; first, because the people are indisposed to manufacture; and next, that very few of the agricultural prisoners are acquainted, practically, with any manufac- ture, and there must be, consequently, a considerable waste of time and materials before their labour could be made profitable. Do you not apprehend that it may likewise have a prejudicial influence upon the manufactures out of the gaol, by reducing the price of their manufacturing labour, in a county where there is a scarcity of demand already?— To a small extent it must, but I conceive, that consideration to be immaterial, because it would be equally 549. applicable C ? 2J T. S. Rice, Esq. a Member. ( 31 May.)