204 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Major and re- instated by the court, inasmuch as the grand jury had no authority to super- James Palmer. sec[ e him ?— I think 1 have heard of such a circumstance. ^ Do you believe that the grand jury acted on the report of the inspector in im- ( 27 May.) posing those fines P— I have not heard before of the circumstances. Are you aware of any other way in which the grand jury could have been ap- prized of neglect of duty, but through the report of the inspector?— No other way except the late inspector- general might have done it; but those things are all pre vious to my time. You have heard that he did make reports of the neglect of the surgeon ?— No, I did not hear it. Have you heard that the late surgeon was actually removed for neglect ?— Yes, I have heard it. And that he was re- instated by the judges of the court of King's Bench, from a want of authority in the grand jury to remove him ?— I do not recollect the particu- lars, as it was previous to my time, but such a circumstance as is now mentioned I have heard, that there was an interference on the part of the grand jury as to his constant non- attendance. You have stated an alteration as to a general hospital for the prisons of all Dublin; do you mean to apply it to those that are confined for debt as well as those who are confined for criminal charges ?— No. Then you mean to exclude debtors from that general hospital ?— I did; from the difficulty that would arise with respect to the security to the gaoler for their debts. Do you mean to exclude debtors from that arrangement?— I do. How would you propose the sick in the debtors prisons should be attended to?— The debtors are provided with superior accommodation, very often they have rooms to themselves, and I would propose that they should be attended as any sick man would be in his own room. Should they leave their own hospital and go to attend the debtors in prison ?— Clearly so, inasmuch as they could easier do it, than a medical man now go round to all the prisons. If a sick debtor be seen beyond the precincts of the prison, would not the sheriff be liable to pay the whole of his debt?— I believe he would ; but my opinion is, that the plan of acting on this principle is not applicable to debtors; and I never intended to include them. The general Penitentiary is not included in it?— No. You have inspected that prison more than once ?— I have. Were you satisfied with the arrangements of that prison, and its interior eco- nomy ?— Certainly not. Are you aware what has been the expense of the medical department last year in the Dublin prisons, in all of the five Dublin prisons ?— I think something less than 2,000/. Expenses, and salaries, and medicines ?— I think I have exceeded it when I say 2,0001. The Committee understand you mean to give us a return of what the savings would probably be in your plan?— Certainly; but more than economy was our object. You have stated, a young practitioner would be preferable; do not you think an experienced one would be better, if not encumbered with too much business?— I do; but I think he would not consent to reside there ; and I consider residence necessary on account of night and evening attendance. But it is not necessary for debtors ?— It would be equally necessary, but that is a difficulty I have met with, and should not prevent the execution of the plan. You mentioned Madam Stephens' hospital; can you tell what the expenses of the medical establishment of that hospital are ?— I cannot at present recollect. Do you know what the salary of the apothecary is, independent of the medicines ? - I think his salary is about 401, or 501, a year. Who is the resident apothecary ?— I do not know his name. Is not Dr. Cowen the resident medical man at Madam Stephens' hospital?— I never heard of him. With respect to Madam Stephens' hospital, you do not know what the expenses of that officer is?— No. What is his accommodation ?— He has rooms. You