14S MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE djl". N CAN HE ENFORCE PAYMENT OF RENT OF HIS ROOMS ; COULD HE SEIZE THE FURNITURE OF THE William Harty. DEBTORS ?— HE CAN ONLY BE SECURE OF HIS RENT BY REQUIRING PAYMENT M ADVANCE, FOR , — J IF FT PERSON DOES NOT PAY HIM, HIS ONLY REDRESS IS TURNING HIM OUT OF THAT ROOM, AS ( 14 May,) he CANNOT SEIZE HIS FURNITURE OR DETAIN FOR RENT. IS THE PRESENT MODE OF PAYMENT ANY HINDRANCE TO THE ESTABLISHMENT OT GOOD DISCIPLINE ?— UNQUESTIONABLY; " AND IT DEGRADES THE KEEPER. FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE AND ATTENTION, BOTH TO THE STATE OF THIS PRISON AND OTHERS, what REGULATIONS WOULD YOU PROPOSE TO SUBSTITUTE ?— THE REGULATION WHICH I WOULD PROPOSE, IS ONE SANCTIONED BY THE APPROBATION OF THOSE MOST CONVERSANT WITH THE STATE OF THE PRISON, AND BEST ACQUAINTED WITH THE ABUSES THAT EXISTED IN IT; I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE KEEPER SHOULD RECEIVE, BY PRESENTMENT OR OTHERWISE, AN ADEQUATE SALARY, INDEPENDENT OF ALL FEES AND RENTS, AND THAT THE LATTER SHOULD BE APPROPRIATED TO THE REPAIRS OF THE PRISON, AND TO THE PROVIDING PROPER ACCOMMODATION FOR ALL PAUPER DEBTORS; THAT THERE SHOULD BE WARDS FOR THE GRATUITOUS ACCOMMODATION OF THOSE WHO COULD NOT, OR WOULD NOT PAY A RENT; THAT ANY PRISONER ABLE TO PAY RENT, AND DESIROUS OF A SEPARATE ROOM, SHOULD HAVE APARTMENTS AT RENTS REGULATED, AS THEY NOW ARE, BY THE COURT OF KING'S BENCH ; THAT THE AMOUNT OF THIS RENT SHOULD GO IN LIEU OF THE PRESENTMENTS NOW MADE BV THE GRAND JURY, FOR THE REPAIRS OF THE PRISONS, SO THAT THE KEEPER BEING FREED FROM ALL CONCERN IN RENTS, AND HAVING AN INDEPENDENT SALARY, MAY BE ENABLED TO ENFORCE DISCIPLINE AS IT OUGHT TO BE ENFORCED. WOULD YOU RELIEVE DEBTORS ALTOGETHER FROM THE PAYMENT OF RENT?— UNQUESTION- ABLY I WOULD NOT; ALL SUCH DEBTORS, AS CANNOT PAY RENT, OUGHT TO BE ACCOMMODATED, AND MIGHT EASILY BE ACCOMMODATED MUCH BETTER THAN THEY ARE NOW IN THE SHERIFF'S PRISON ; BUT FROM MY KNOWLEDGE OF THAT GAOL, AND OF OTHER GAOLS, I NEVER WOULD ALLOW A DEBTOR, WHO IS ABLE TO LIVE, AND LIVE SUMPTUOUSLY, AS THEY OFTEN DO, TO LIVE FREE OF RENT, AND BE THEREBY ENABLED TO INDULGE HIS APPETITE THE MORE LIBERALLY. DO NOT YOU THINK, THAT IT WOULD BE A FAIR LINE OF DISTINCTION TO DRAW, THAT ALL DEBTORS WHO ARE SUPPORTED AT PUBLIC EXPENSE, OR WHO RECEIVE NO ASSISTANCE FROM THEIR FRIENDS, SHOULD IN THAT CASE BE FREE FROM THE CHARGE OF RENT?— UNQUESTIONABLY I WOULD ALLOW EVERY DEBTOR, WHO PLEADED HIS INABILITY, TO BE FED AND LODGED AT THE PUBLIC EXPENSE; MY MEANING IS, THAT WHERE THERE ARE ROOMS APPROPRIATED TO PAUPER DEBTORS, IF A PRISONER SAYS HE IS UNABLE TO PAY RENT, HE MAY GO TO THE PAUPER ROOMS, AND IF HE REQUIRES BETTER ACCOMMODATION, HE MUST PAY FOR IT. WOULD NOT SUCH A REGULATION ENTAIL A GOOD DEAL OF ADDITIONAL EXPENSE UPON THE CITY OF DUBLIN?— CERTAINLY VERY LITTLE, FOR IT WILL BE OBSERVED, THAT THE PRESENT- MENTS NOW MADE FOR THIS PRISON, AMOUNT TO BETWEEN TWO AND THREE HUNDRED POUNDS A YEAR, SO THAT A LITTLE ADDITIONAL EXPENSE WOULD GIVE AN ADEQUATE SALARY TO THE KEEPER, AND LEAVE THE RENTS IN LIEU OF FORMER PRESENTMENTS. I DO NOT HESITATE TO SAY, THAT SUCH A CHANGE, AS THAT PROPOSED, COULD NOT BE PURCHASED AT TOO DEAR A RATE, AS IT WAS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY MAN WHO EVER ENTERED THAT PRISON UNDER THE FORMER KEEPERS, AND ABIDED IN IT FOR A SEASON, TO COME OUT UNINJURED IN HEALTH AND MORALS. HAVE YOU VISITED THE WHITECROSS- STREET PRISON IN LONDON ?— I HAVE. WILL YOU STATE THE SALARY OF THE KEEPER OF THAT PRISON, AND THE MANNER IN WHICH HE IS ESTABLISHED M THE PRISON?— HE HAS AN EXCELLENT HOUSE IN THE PRISON ; HE HAS BEEN LATELY APPOINTED, AND IS ON TRIAL ONLY ; HIS SALARY 011 TRIAL IS 500/. A YEAR; IF HE GIVES SATISFACTION IT WILL BE RAISED TO 800/. WHAT REGULATIONS EXIST IN THAT PRISON AS TO THE RENT FOR ROOMS ?—' THERE IS NO RENT WHATEVER CHARGED TO ANY CLASS OF PRISONERS FOR ROOMS, THEY ARE ALL COMMON, BUT "' ER<:> BESIDES THOSE COMMON APARTMENTS WHERE ALL ARE LODGED, WHAT WERE VERY PROPERLY DESIGNATED IN THE PRISON, PARTIAL ROOMS, SMALL APARTMENTS CONNECTED WITH EACH CORRIDOR, M WHICH THE KEEPER OR MAGISTRATES HAVE AT TIMES ACCOMMODATED PARTICULAR PRISONERS; BUT IT WAS A SOURCE OF SUCH JEALOUSY AND COMPLAINT, THAT THE 5. T SUF T0 TH? MA § ISTRATES, THE PROPRIETY OF SHUTTING UP THE ROOMS ITNTL HEY/; E"° W C ° SED' S0. THAT THERE ARE NOW NO PARTIAL ROOMS, TO THE GREAT TO PAY RENT ^ S° ME' CONSE( LUENCE OF THE PRISONERS NOT BEING ALLOWED LONDOM16 INSPECTION THOSE PRISONS ?- BY THE SHERIFF'S AND MAGISTRATES OF SO^ R^ T THS APPOINTI « G ^ INTENDING COMMITTEES TO CONTROL THE PRI- PA" S OF IRELAND I' ' * TF ^ IN THE ^ OF DUBLI"' WHICH * DOES ^ OTHER : D R AIN CONFIDENT THEY WOULD BE USEFUL; BUT THE COMMITTEES OF THE 5 iney aie at PRESENT CONSTITUTED, BEING THE MAGISTRATES, DO, AS SUCH, INTERFERE: \