Dr William Harty. ( 13- May.) 1; 18 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE fied that if the crovemment wish to check crime in Dublin, they will so far alter the law as to send the county prisoners to Kilmainham, where there is good accommo- dation and means of classification. Do you not think that the removal of the prisoners under conviction, would have the effect of considerably reducing the number?— It would somewhat, but not so much as to enable the officers to'classify even the committed prisoners. What measures would you propose for checking the increase of criminal prisoners • in Dublin?— Before I propose any measure of that kind, I should first state to the Committee my views of the causes which have produced the increase of crime in Dublin : and I should think that the returns before the Committee M ill satisfac- tory explain those causes. There are returns before the Committee of the commit- tals to Kilmainham and to Newgate from 1S05 to 1821, and from those it appears that for four years previous to the Act of the 48th of the King, which sent the county prisoners to the city gaol, the number in the latter scarcely ever exceeded 700 : 011 " the passing of that Act, the number at oncc rose to upwards of goo ; and the Com- mittee will perceive on turning to the county returns, that, as the number increased in the city, it diminished in the county. In the year 1807 the number was 254, and in the three following years 195, 161 and 128, then they continued nearly station- ary in Newgate and in the county prison until the year 1815. When the peace took place, followed by an immediate and general want of employment, then the number rose at once in the city from 986 to 5,372, and they continued at that rate till the effects of the scarcity of 1 816 was felt at Dublin in 1817, and then they rose at once to 2,000, and have continued at that rate in consequence of the bad state of Newgate, the influence of bad example, the demoralization of every person com • mitted there, the want of employment, of education, and other causes: it is not so much crime, as the number of criminals that has increased, and especially among juvenile delinquents. The causes now assigned are borne out by returns from the county, and by returns from the whole of Ireland, which rose nearly in the same proportion at the different periods, referred to. Do you mean to say that the increase of crime in the city of Dublin has been exactly in the same proportion as the increase of crime in the county of Dublin and in Ireland generally ?— I mean that the causes I have stated as the causes of the in- crease in Dublin evidently produced a similar increase in Dublin county and in the whole of Ireland : for example, after the peace the number of criminals rose in Dublin from 98G to 1,372; in the county they rose from 166 to 215, and to 300 the next year; and in the country at large in 1815 the committals were 5,792, and in 1816, on the occurrence of scarcity, they rose at once to 11,273. These, therefore, are obvious causes, so far, to account for the number of criminals in Dublin ; and I conceive that number is kept up by the state of Newgate, and in some degree also, I would say, from the comforts enjoyed in the prisons beyond the comforts which the poor in Ireland can enjoy; and I would also attribute something to the influence of the female criminals, who, instead of being transported, are sent to prison for two, three, or four years, at a great expense to Dublin, to the subsequent corruption of the young. The proportionate increase of crime in Dublin appearing to be less than the pro- portionate increase of crime in Ireland, as well as the particular increase of crime in the county of Dublin, how do you account for the difference?— We cannot expect an exact proportion to exist in the increase of crime in different places, though it may be owing to the same general causes. I conceive there were general causes operating, but of course they will operate with different degrees of influence in dif- ferent places; and I think the returns before the Committee will bear me out in these points. Do you think the institution of the Mendicity Society diminished the number of criminals r— Unquestionably it diminished the number of female prisoners. liow many classes of officers of the grand jury are there paid by presentment ?— 1 here are three classes of officers : the grand jury officers, the general officers, and the local officers of the prisons. From your knowledge of the remuneration made to public officers in similar de- J rhnDnK- a A ~ • i 1 ... . - * . ------, w. v, .^ iiiuj A nave seen, . dIKt Ilom my Knowiea » : e 01 the them nv^ rf whld, f^ ose officers have to discharge, I do not consider any of Se dudl'lr some of them are certainly under- paid ; for example, the treasurer, dutles and responsibility are heavy, the inspector of accounts, whose salary b quit j