2/ J ON THE LOCAL TAXATION OF THE CITY OF DUBLIN. 137 place, from the very nature of parish- meetings, all such at least as I have at- tended, I would say that any six or eight persons combining in a parish could regulate that parish, and govern it as they pleased, if they would take the trouble of attending every meeting, and of sitting it out. In the next place, I would object to granting the parishes of Dublin any further powers, from my knowledge of their past and present history. When they had powers, they were grossly abused, in every instance, of which I am prepared to furnish evidence indepen- dently of my own; and in the last place, I would specially object, from the know- ledge I have of particular facts. What are those particular facts ?— I will state one fact in my own parish, of which I am perfectly cognizant: I would state, generally, that the parishes even abuse the powers, such as they now possess, in " the levy of their own cess; that they often cess for illegal objects; and that the parochial money which passes through the hands of the churchwardens is frequently diverted from parochial objects to the purposes of individual interest; and when I make that general as- sertion, I can give one out of several instances within my knowledge. A late churchwarden in St. Thomas's parish, Counsellor Cullen, ( and the reason I give his name specially is, that if I were to allude generally to the churchwardens of that parish, the imputation would be general; they all would feel it; and therefore I particularize the individual, who is a leading parochial reformer, and, if my memory serves me right, was chairman at a late meeting of the parochial deputies, when a member of this Committee now present was formally introduced, and was also the council employed by the parishes to oppose the grand jury presentments ( when submitted to the Court of King's Bench in Michaelmas last). Counsellor Cullen, I say, was senior churchwarden, there being two churchwardens to most parishes; and in his last year, on retiring from office, there was a sum of, I understand, about 200/. deficient, and of that sum a considerable portion was due to parish officers. To one of the officers, the vestry- clerk in particular, there was a sum of about too/, due for two years salary; that vestry- clerk was compelled, under threats of dismissal by the succeeding churchwardens, to accept the per- sonal notes of Counsellor Cullen, at six, twelve, eighteen, and twenty- four months, without discount or interest added, in lieu of the demand which he had on the parish ; and I can only state further, that the first of those payments, as it fell due, was not discharged. I must add further, that having heard a rumour of this transaction, I sent for the vestry- clerk, and with great difficulty extracted from him an admission of these facts, under fear of consequences ; and, to induce him to tell, I told him, that if any unpleasant consequences ensued, I would take care there should be a proper meeting of the parish to investigate the affair. I could state similar facts of other parishes. A similar occurrence took place in St. George's parish, one of the most respectable parishes in Dublin. I shall only state further, that one of the leading parochial reformers of Dublin in his day, Mr. William Smith, of St. Michan's parish, well known as a public character at all those meet- ings, was not long since transported for robbing the parish charities. ° Was not Mr. William Smith tried for stealing a sum of money from the plate which he was intrusted to hold as a collector in the church, and for which offence he was transported?— He was; and he had been the chairman of the parochial depu- ties of his day. Do you know of your own knowledge any other instance of the sort ?— I should not wish to state any thing but what I know to a certainty; I have heard of various other instances. I know that the parishes do assess contrary to law ; and that it has been only by decided interference that such assessments have been prevented. There is a gentleman, however, in attendance upon the Committee, the vestry- clerk of St. Michan's parish, who has been in that office nearly forty years, and who can state from his own knowledge the practices of that and other parishes w hen they possessed all the powers they are now seeking. It is stated in the petition from St. Mary's parish that the expense incurred by that parish alone, for the administration of the criminal law, at present exceeds the whole charge levied from the entire county of Dublin for the same object; and that that single fact is sufficient to show that the charges in every department are unne- cessarily heavy, and the salaries to the various officers regulated upon a scale ot ex- pense exceeding all reasonable principle of compensation. . Are those assertions correct, or does the inference appear to you reasonable and just r — The committee may form its own opinion, when I state the real facts of the case, and the grounds upon which only a proper inference ought to be drawn, in comparing a 549. liarlSli r j Dr. William Harty. < t « 3 Ma?-)