14S MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE djl". heads, we shall1 find. that u^ the ™ at StS. Vol fees imperative by Act of Parliament, over which the ( ijM;,.) ; n. and jury have no control whatsoever, as specified in the 49th of George III. Ihen Sf the remaining sum of 679I. 2S. 1 d. there is 150/. for stationery ; for rents for furniture, and gfazing, leaving 529l. only at the discretion of the jury to be divided amongst ten officers, none of whom could be dispensed with. Have they any discretion over N° 1 ?— None, except so far as has been stated. N" 2 ?— None. N° 3 ?— None. N° 4 ?— None. N9 5 ?— None. Have they any discretion over N° 6?— That degree of discretion merely as to whether the'state of the roads and walls required the expenditure. N°. 7 ?— The same as N° 6. g ? It is imperative on them to make presentments for those articles ; and their discretion is so strictly limited by the contracts that they must take the lowest contract. ] STo 9 ?— The same; but there is more discretion under that head. 10?— N° 10, the jury must present for the articles under the checks esta- blished by law, and by the usage of the court and grand jury. N° 11 ?— All the officers and servants must be paid ; and the only question is, what should be the amount of remuneration proportioned to the duty discharged. N° 12 ?— They have no discretion. Are there not certain presentments altogether at the discretion of the grand jury?— Strictly speaking, none can be discretionary, because they must be sanc- tioned by law; but there are a few altogether discretional, for example, the grand jury would not insure any prison against fire, however desirable it might be to do so; but it is left to their discretion whether they will present for a stepping- wheel or fire- engine ; whether they will heat the prison by the ordinary means, or by various mechanical contrivances : those are presentments which the grand jury cannot be compelled to make, and though lawful, are strictly discretional. Have any of the grand jury presentments for special purposes, been, to your know- ledge traversed ?— Never, to my knowledge, has any presentment been traversed for any special object; the only presentments that have ever been traversed were for arrears alleged to be due by one of the parishes. That was a question between the parish and the treasurer ?— It occurred in the case of the parish of Saint Thomas, and comes specially within my knowledge. Do you reside in that parish?— I do. What do you know of that transaction ?— When I heard of the presentment beino; traversed, I went into the vestry- room, and examined the vestry- books, and I found that those proceedings were ordered by a vestry, consisting of " three lawyers, three, attornies, and one or two ordinary parishioners: a lawyer and attorney were of course employed on the occasion. Do you know any thing of the petition for St. Thomas's Parish, or had you any concern in forwarding it?— I attended the meeting, that was convened for the pur- pose of petitioning Parliament; and I can inform the Committee that the attendance was very scanty, that the statements made on the occasion to induce the parish to petition ; were exaggerated in the extreme, and most erroneous. I stated many of the errors in that petition, and the cry of the meeting- was " divide, divide": I told one or two gentlemen present, for whom I had a regard, that I regretted they should commit themselves and the parish by erroneous statements ; and that if they would favour me with halt an hour's conversation I would show them many of the gross errors under which they laboured. I met the gentlemen afterwards, and asked them why they did not call upon me: they never sought the information, and the peti- tion went forward in the state in which it is. From your experience or knowledge of'the manner in which parish business is usually conducted, would you approve of intrusting the parish with more exten- sive powers r— Certainly I would not. State your reasons for that.- My reasons are various. In the first place they tZSTI' 7* Ag u° m my knowledSe of l^ an nature, and of the state of he r means T7" & F* ° f itS PG° Ple live UP to it' if ** beyond e n usU'd wirh nr t 1 T COnCC1Ve 11 safe for men in such circumstances to be entrusted with or to have the management of monies not their own. In the next place